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	<title>Comments on: More Heisig Musings</title>
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	<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/</link>
	<description>幸せ [しあわせ] (adj-na,n) happiness, good fortune, luck, blessing</description>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/comment-page-1/#comment-116</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shiawase.co.uk/?p=420#comment-116</guid>
		<description>Indeed!  I realized this trap of studying in isolation recently as well when studying for the N2, as my wife pointed out my frequent mis-use of vocab words.  Dictionaries are only so useful.  You&#039;ve got to just learn to read Japanese until it becomes rote.  It&#039;s uncomfortable at first, since it&#039;s so unfamiliar, but that&#039;s true of any skill in life.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed!  I realized this trap of studying in isolation recently as well when studying for the N2, as my wife pointed out my frequent mis-use of vocab words.  Dictionaries are only so useful.  You&#8217;ve got to just learn to read Japanese until it becomes rote.  It&#8217;s uncomfortable at first, since it&#8217;s so unfamiliar, but that&#8217;s true of any skill in life.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: ロバート</title>
		<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>ロバート</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shiawase.co.uk/?p=420#comment-115</guid>
		<description>I know what you mean about that critical mass of ability that makes it easier to add new knowledge to your store. 
I&#039;ve have the odd ability now where I can often guess the readings correctly without actually knowing the correct meaning of the word! 
Vocabulary is certainly the key. When you think about it few kanji exist in isolation, even single kanji often have okurigana. All too often I think I lose sight of the goal, which is to read and write Japanese, when concentrating on individual kanji and their components. 
I think overall it needs an integrated approach, where you need some grammar, some vocabulary, some kanji, and you build up your reading and writing ability across the board bit by bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know what you mean about that critical mass of ability that makes it easier to add new knowledge to your store.<br />
I&#8217;ve have the odd ability now where I can often guess the readings correctly without actually knowing the correct meaning of the word!<br />
Vocabulary is certainly the key. When you think about it few kanji exist in isolation, even single kanji often have okurigana. All too often I think I lose sight of the goal, which is to read and write Japanese, when concentrating on individual kanji and their components.<br />
I think overall it needs an integrated approach, where you need some grammar, some vocabulary, some kanji, and you build up your reading and writing ability across the board bit by bit.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/comment-page-1/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shiawase.co.uk/?p=420#comment-113</guid>
		<description>Hi Robert,

Great article.  I&#039;ve steered clear of Heisig myself and just relied on Anki very heavily this last year, but like Owen above, I&#039;ve noticed a trend in my learning of kanji that is interesting.  If you learn enough words, the kanji start to converge enough that you can start learning new words with less effort.

For example, I learned the word 光栄 (k&#333;ei) recently.  I had see 光 from many other words (e.g. 観光, 光明 (buddhism), etc) and 栄 I learned from another word, 栄達 (eitatsu), so when I saw this word, it was easier to put together right off the bat and have a reasonable idea what it meant.

To get to this stage, you definitely have to learn enough words to reach critical mass, and that&#039;s hard.  People want the easy way out, and then you see these amateur efforts like you&#039;re talking about, but if you can take the &quot;high road&quot; long enough, it really, really pays off.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Great article.  I&#8217;ve steered clear of Heisig myself and just relied on Anki very heavily this last year, but like Owen above, I&#8217;ve noticed a trend in my learning of kanji that is interesting.  If you learn enough words, the kanji start to converge enough that you can start learning new words with less effort.</p>
<p>For example, I learned the word 光栄 (k&#333;ei) recently.  I had see 光 from many other words (e.g. 観光, 光明 (buddhism), etc) and 栄 I learned from another word, 栄達 (eitatsu), so when I saw this word, it was easier to put together right off the bat and have a reasonable idea what it meant.</p>
<p>To get to this stage, you definitely have to learn enough words to reach critical mass, and that&#8217;s hard.  People want the easy way out, and then you see these amateur efforts like you&#8217;re talking about, but if you can take the &#8220;high road&#8221; long enough, it really, really pays off.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: ロバート</title>
		<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/comment-page-1/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>ロバート</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shiawase.co.uk/?p=420#comment-112</guid>
		<description>Thank you both for your thoughtful comments. 

My wish for a kanji learning resource would be this. 
For 2nd language learners initially focus on the 500 kanji that make up 70% of usage. Then progress to the 1000 that make up 90% of usage. 
As to the book. I too would like a mix of Basic kanji, Let&#039;s Learn Kanji, and a reader, broken down into manageable chunks. I&#039;d also like exercises and games and SRS. Kakitorikun v3. And a good learner dictionary. I also want it all on an iPad device with pen input. Except for clearances, and a pen enabled iPad, it&#039;s feasible but unlikely. ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you both for your thoughtful comments. </p>
<p>My wish for a kanji learning resource would be this.<br />
For 2nd language learners initially focus on the 500 kanji that make up 70% of usage. Then progress to the 1000 that make up 90% of usage.<br />
As to the book. I too would like a mix of Basic kanji, Let&#8217;s Learn Kanji, and a reader, broken down into manageable chunks. I&#8217;d also like exercises and games and SRS. Kakitorikun v3. And a good learner dictionary. I also want it all on an iPad device with pen input. Except for clearances, and a pen enabled iPad, it&#8217;s feasible but unlikely. &#8230;.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shiawase.co.uk/?p=420#comment-110</guid>
		<description>I am a self directed learner who has also chosen to shun Heisig, in part inspired by some of your earlier posts on the subject and I don&#039;t regret it, so I wanted to thank you for that!  I feel distinctly uncomfortable about the way that the Heisig method is often suggested as the one true way, never mind the fabled alternative given of writing out characters many times.

I often wonder if the success reported by many Heisig users has more to do with their use of an SRS system, which is a method that I have bought into.  I don&#039;t write characters out hundreds of times, only as often as Anki tells me I need to.

I think part of the issue is Heisig defines the kanji &quot;problem&quot; as one where you have to know 2000 characters to be literate, and offers a solution to memorising the lot.  I know how to use perhaps around 500 kanji now.  I&#039;m not literate enough to read a newspaper but I&#039;m fine with e-mailing and text chatting and can use a dictionary when I get stuck.  I realised that usually, if I see kanji I don&#039;t recognise and look the word up in a dictionary, I don&#039;t actually know the Japanese word anyway and since then I&#039;ve been quite relaxed about kanji.  I don&#039;t have a kanji problem as much as I have a vocabulary one.  I think this is quite hard to explain to someone who is just starting out and has read many times over, as I did, that you need 2000 kanji to be able to read Japanese, which I think is something of a half truth.

Of course there is no one true way to learn anything and part of the joy (and the frustration) of self study is finding out what works for you.  However I think there is probably some space for a decent, comprehensive kanji resource.  On my wish list is something that combines the well-thought out order for introducing kanji, exercises and reading passages in the Basic Kanji Book, the detailed information about breaking kanji down into parts, radicals and strokes in Let&#039;s Learn Kanji and the breadth of coverage of Kanji in Context.  But despite all of this, a couple of hours paid for with a Japanese tutor who taught me how to recognise and draw the different types of strokes and corrected my penmanship, and a brief conversation with a Chinese friend who helped me break 議 into it&#039;s component parts, which subsequently enabled me to do the same with any complicated looking kanji, proved more invaluable than any book time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a self directed learner who has also chosen to shun Heisig, in part inspired by some of your earlier posts on the subject and I don&#8217;t regret it, so I wanted to thank you for that!  I feel distinctly uncomfortable about the way that the Heisig method is often suggested as the one true way, never mind the fabled alternative given of writing out characters many times.</p>
<p>I often wonder if the success reported by many Heisig users has more to do with their use of an SRS system, which is a method that I have bought into.  I don&#8217;t write characters out hundreds of times, only as often as Anki tells me I need to.</p>
<p>I think part of the issue is Heisig defines the kanji &#8220;problem&#8221; as one where you have to know 2000 characters to be literate, and offers a solution to memorising the lot.  I know how to use perhaps around 500 kanji now.  I&#8217;m not literate enough to read a newspaper but I&#8217;m fine with e-mailing and text chatting and can use a dictionary when I get stuck.  I realised that usually, if I see kanji I don&#8217;t recognise and look the word up in a dictionary, I don&#8217;t actually know the Japanese word anyway and since then I&#8217;ve been quite relaxed about kanji.  I don&#8217;t have a kanji problem as much as I have a vocabulary one.  I think this is quite hard to explain to someone who is just starting out and has read many times over, as I did, that you need 2000 kanji to be able to read Japanese, which I think is something of a half truth.</p>
<p>Of course there is no one true way to learn anything and part of the joy (and the frustration) of self study is finding out what works for you.  However I think there is probably some space for a decent, comprehensive kanji resource.  On my wish list is something that combines the well-thought out order for introducing kanji, exercises and reading passages in the Basic Kanji Book, the detailed information about breaking kanji down into parts, radicals and strokes in Let&#8217;s Learn Kanji and the breadth of coverage of Kanji in Context.  But despite all of this, a couple of hours paid for with a Japanese tutor who taught me how to recognise and draw the different types of strokes and corrected my penmanship, and a brief conversation with a Chinese friend who helped me break 議 into it&#8217;s component parts, which subsequently enabled me to do the same with any complicated looking kanji, proved more invaluable than any book time.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2010/01/07/more-heisig-musings/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shiawase.co.uk/?p=420#comment-104</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been studying Japanese for a little over a year now.  I started my journey by studying Kanji using the Heisig method.  After about 4 months and many hours and practice sheets I completed RTK1.  For a number of reasons I stopped reviewing the kanji until recently and my Anki deck basically reset itself.

Over the last few months I&#039;ve been going through my Anki deck again to relearn the RTK1 Kanji.  This time around it&#039;s with a working vocabulary of about 1800 words.  Although my vocabulary is still very limited I&#039;ve noticed a few things.  As I go through the deck again I already know at least one word or reading for maybe half of the characters.  Because of this a lot of the keywords have become ambiguous like you mentioned.  My current strategy is to supplement the keyword with either a reading or a full Japanese word.  I think this is probably because once you&#039;ve developed a Japanese lexicon the keywords start transforming into possible Japanese words automatically.

In retrospect I&#039;m not sure I would have done anything differently (with the exception of dropping reviews for a while.  Clear mistake there).  When I started my studies I found it incredibly difficult to learn vocabulary words.  When I &quot;finished&quot; RTK1 the first time I felt utterly inadequate and unbalanced from my lack of vocab.  The result of this was that I binged on vocabulary words for a while (in full Kanji).  Now I&#039;m bringing RTK back into the picture, albeit in a slightly augmented way.

I agree with your intuitions that there must be a better and more balanced way to learn the Kanji and voacbulary concurrently.  For now I suppose I&#039;m still overwhelmed and in over my head learning the language so I&#039;ll just keep plodding along and try to cover as much ground as possible.

This was an interesting post, thank you!

Owen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been studying Japanese for a little over a year now.  I started my journey by studying Kanji using the Heisig method.  After about 4 months and many hours and practice sheets I completed RTK1.  For a number of reasons I stopped reviewing the kanji until recently and my Anki deck basically reset itself.</p>
<p>Over the last few months I&#8217;ve been going through my Anki deck again to relearn the RTK1 Kanji.  This time around it&#8217;s with a working vocabulary of about 1800 words.  Although my vocabulary is still very limited I&#8217;ve noticed a few things.  As I go through the deck again I already know at least one word or reading for maybe half of the characters.  Because of this a lot of the keywords have become ambiguous like you mentioned.  My current strategy is to supplement the keyword with either a reading or a full Japanese word.  I think this is probably because once you&#8217;ve developed a Japanese lexicon the keywords start transforming into possible Japanese words automatically.</p>
<p>In retrospect I&#8217;m not sure I would have done anything differently (with the exception of dropping reviews for a while.  Clear mistake there).  When I started my studies I found it incredibly difficult to learn vocabulary words.  When I &#8220;finished&#8221; RTK1 the first time I felt utterly inadequate and unbalanced from my lack of vocab.  The result of this was that I binged on vocabulary words for a while (in full Kanji).  Now I&#8217;m bringing RTK back into the picture, albeit in a slightly augmented way.</p>
<p>I agree with your intuitions that there must be a better and more balanced way to learn the Kanji and voacbulary concurrently.  For now I suppose I&#8217;m still overwhelmed and in over my head learning the language so I&#8217;ll just keep plodding along and try to cover as much ground as possible.</p>
<p>This was an interesting post, thank you!</p>
<p>Owen</p>
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